Thoughts on The Matrix Reloaded
Jun. 13th, 2003 12:29 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
darcydodoBefore I enter the realm of the cut-tag, I will say that I liked it. I haven't seen the original Matrix in absolutely ages, and maybe this helped, in that I didn't have it so fresh in my mind to compare this against. But I also think that one thing that might make people dislike the movie is if they're expecting it to try to answer questions raised by the first one. It didn't. I don't think it tried, either. My guess is that basically, at the end of the third one, we're going to be sitting there saying "Oh, that's what was going on? I had no clue that was even in the offing!"
I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to write here; I was talking about the film with Katie, the girl I went to see it with, as we walked home, so probably I'll just splash out some of what we chewed over. She referred to the movie as being sodden (well, not actually the word she used) with French post-modernism, and I can sort of see what she means. There was a certain amount of repetition-of-the-same-thing-with-different-perspectives-and-did-it-actually-happen. But the only place that was visually the case was in Neo's dreams of Trinity, and that was always exactly the same up until the point where it ends. So that doesn't actually fit.
(OK, now I've gotten somewhat distracted, 'cause Katie and I are arguing about the movie with a cynical guy in the computer room. So I'll jump to one of the other things I'd come up with which we've just now been discussing.) The different versions of the matrix. Let's consider for now that the Architect is telling the truth and there have been 6 different versions. Now, these versions were referred to previously in the movie: Persephone says that the vampire agents of the Merovingian come from an earlier version of the matrix. This means that the code of the matrix is simply altered for each new version, rather than fully rebuilt each time. (Except, of course, possibly for the first version, which the Architect implied was too flawed to retain.) But that means that the Merovingian himself is from an earlier version of the matrix. And hence the Key Maker has probably been held by the Merovingian for more than one version.... So. If the Key Maker has been held by the Merovingian for more than one version, where did Neo's predecessors get the key to get to the Architect?
But here's another question, regarding the Merovingian. Persephone tells Neo that the Merovingian was like him once. This says several things to me, depending on how I follow the various routes that then open up in my mind. But one important hurdle that must be jumped first is that it's been stated that the Merovingian is a piece of code. Katie thinks that it's possible Neo might himself be a code. And if he is, this opens a whole new can of worms.... But let's ignore those two facts briefly. OK. The Merovingian was once like Neo. Perhaps he was one of Neo's predecessors. So how is he now inside the matrix, if he went back and restarted Zion as the Architect claims all of Neo's predecessors have? Maybe they didn't. Maybe the Architect, too, is lying. Because he says that what makes Neo different is his love for Trinity. But Persephone says that the Merovingian loved her, once, too. Maybe the Merovingian was the first One, which would explain how he can say that Neo, unlike "the others," has some skills.
So now let's say that Neo is, like the Merovingian, a piece of code. That would mean that his human body in the real world doesn't exist. Which would mean that the real world doesn't exist (as I have seen suggested elsewhere). But, happily, that would explain both how the Agents can take over people and, in a different sense, how Agent Smith can take over people. Because in the first case, don't you wonder what happens to the bodies of the people whom the Agents subsume? Since the Agents are theoretically bits of code? They can't survive forever, but neither can they disappear, because then there would be no point to them. And in Smith's case, it would explain how he can suddenly inhabit bodies in the real world, like that of Bing (or whatever his name is). And it might go some way towards explaining Neo's new connection at the end of the film with the machines.
OK, I'm starting to forget where my ideas were going, 'cause I spent too long listening to an annoying guy go on about how he's already thought of all these things blah blah blah. And I want to go to sleep. But if I think of something else tomorrow, I'll post more.
I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to write here; I was talking about the film with Katie, the girl I went to see it with, as we walked home, so probably I'll just splash out some of what we chewed over. She referred to the movie as being sodden (well, not actually the word she used) with French post-modernism, and I can sort of see what she means. There was a certain amount of repetition-of-the-same-thing-with-different-perspectives-and-did-it-actually-happen. But the only place that was visually the case was in Neo's dreams of Trinity, and that was always exactly the same up until the point where it ends. So that doesn't actually fit.
(OK, now I've gotten somewhat distracted, 'cause Katie and I are arguing about the movie with a cynical guy in the computer room. So I'll jump to one of the other things I'd come up with which we've just now been discussing.) The different versions of the matrix. Let's consider for now that the Architect is telling the truth and there have been 6 different versions. Now, these versions were referred to previously in the movie: Persephone says that the vampire agents of the Merovingian come from an earlier version of the matrix. This means that the code of the matrix is simply altered for each new version, rather than fully rebuilt each time. (Except, of course, possibly for the first version, which the Architect implied was too flawed to retain.) But that means that the Merovingian himself is from an earlier version of the matrix. And hence the Key Maker has probably been held by the Merovingian for more than one version.... So. If the Key Maker has been held by the Merovingian for more than one version, where did Neo's predecessors get the key to get to the Architect?
But here's another question, regarding the Merovingian. Persephone tells Neo that the Merovingian was like him once. This says several things to me, depending on how I follow the various routes that then open up in my mind. But one important hurdle that must be jumped first is that it's been stated that the Merovingian is a piece of code. Katie thinks that it's possible Neo might himself be a code. And if he is, this opens a whole new can of worms.... But let's ignore those two facts briefly. OK. The Merovingian was once like Neo. Perhaps he was one of Neo's predecessors. So how is he now inside the matrix, if he went back and restarted Zion as the Architect claims all of Neo's predecessors have? Maybe they didn't. Maybe the Architect, too, is lying. Because he says that what makes Neo different is his love for Trinity. But Persephone says that the Merovingian loved her, once, too. Maybe the Merovingian was the first One, which would explain how he can say that Neo, unlike "the others," has some skills.
So now let's say that Neo is, like the Merovingian, a piece of code. That would mean that his human body in the real world doesn't exist. Which would mean that the real world doesn't exist (as I have seen suggested elsewhere). But, happily, that would explain both how the Agents can take over people and, in a different sense, how Agent Smith can take over people. Because in the first case, don't you wonder what happens to the bodies of the people whom the Agents subsume? Since the Agents are theoretically bits of code? They can't survive forever, but neither can they disappear, because then there would be no point to them. And in Smith's case, it would explain how he can suddenly inhabit bodies in the real world, like that of Bing (or whatever his name is). And it might go some way towards explaining Neo's new connection at the end of the film with the machines.
OK, I'm starting to forget where my ideas were going, 'cause I spent too long listening to an annoying guy go on about how he's already thought of all these things blah blah blah. And I want to go to sleep. But if I think of something else tomorrow, I'll post more.
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no subject
Date: 2003-06-13 07:19 am (UTC)Having seen it twice, I think that what the Architect says at the end does provide a reasonable explanation for what we've seen to that point; still at a loss for why the Architect goads Neo into saving Trinity rather than the Matrix, I shall be deeply annoyed if this point is not cleared up in the third film. On the other hand, one implication of the Architect's explanation is that most of the stuff Neo thinks he knows has been set up to manipulate him to this point, and we have no reason at all to believe that's over.
The more I think about it, the more hope I feel that all the stuff echoing off creationist memes and Twue Wuv conquering all is being set up to be taken down hard. Which would please me immensely.
I think it's clear that the Merovingian's been around for a while, but we don't have any reason to assume he's had the Keymaker for that long; or maybe the Keymaker gets reinstantiated as part of each new mechanism. [ I spent quite a lot of this movie not able to get "Haven't you heard of back-ups, Mr. Anderson ?" out of my mind. ] Not sure I buy the Merovingian as a former One, though. I'm very much philosophically disinclined to believe any explanations based on the assumption that machines know logic and don't get emotions; I read Persephone's issues with the Merovingian not being loving any more as because he was a sociopath, not a because he was a program.
[ What sort of reaction did his stream of sewer French get there ? It got a huge laugh in Montreal. ]
no subject
Date: 2003-06-13 09:15 am (UTC)I didn't mean to imply that it was him being a program, I was simply trying to draw up more evidence of how he's like Neo. The program thing was completely separate.
What sort of reaction did his stream of sewer French get there ? It got a huge laugh in Montreal.
Much of the theater stayed entirely silent, which surprised me (although people might've been snickering quietly in their seats). The laughter that it did get was sort of shocked and loud and of the just-how-long-will-it-take-to-stop-laughing-because-I-personally-can't sort. Sadly, I only understood bits of it (though enough to tell it was incredibly crude!). I need to improve my vocabulary. :)
I loved how the subtitles just disappeared during those points, though. (I mean of course, but anyway.)
no subject
Date: 2003-06-15 06:57 am (UTC)Count the number of surviving rebels at the end of The Matrix Reloaded. I'm not 100% sure, but I have a suspicion that it will be precisely the number of people The Architect offered Neo the chance to restart with- and if he (and possibly they) don't realise that this was all planned for then they will be much better at being a "real" "resistance" than they would if they knew they owed it to the matrix.
For the record, another part of my theory is that Zion itself is inside the matrix rather than outside it, and is essentially used by the Matrix to keep those prone to search and/or rebel thinking that they have found the answers and around and in one place to deal with any serious problems in The Matrix itself (i.e. Agent Smith). When Zion grows too big it ceases to be a distilled lot of rebels and instead becomes a new hierarchy, rendering it almost useless for this purpose- and so The Matrix decides it has lost its use and to destroy it, leaving only the rebels from among the rebels alive (two of the three ships (the third not being one that was actually rebelling against anything), another ship (I think the one that was talking of going with Morpheus- but won't swear to that without doing some research) and Cypher)
Francis
(who saw it last night- and is considering writing up his ideas and putting them somewhere on the web)
no subject
Date: 2003-06-15 10:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-06-15 03:53 pm (UTC)Francis
no subject
Date: 2003-06-15 10:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-06-16 06:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-06-13 12:06 pm (UTC)