Buffy Inscriptions

[darcydodo]

Just in case anybody's curious, the plaque in the monastery in Empty Spaces read as follows:

ΝΟΝ ΤΙΒΙ ΕΣΤ
ΕΙ ΣΟΛΑΕ
ΤΡΑΧΤΑΡΕ
ΛΙΧΕΤ

This is Latin written in Greek characters, so really it's:

NON TIBI EST
EI SOLAE
TRACTARE
LICET

which we're figuring is just about: "Only she can handle it, not you."

Comments

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Many thanks!

I HAD been wondering about the inscription-- sure couldn't decipher it on screen...

Don't you think it makes the pieces fall into place now? I'm quite excited about this part of the episode, if nothing else. Will write a review soon.

& :-)

[darcydodo]

I've got various theories as to what you could be talking about, but I think I missed too much of Season 7 to be sure. Someone in the room said something about 'ooh, it's the knife!' or something, so... big question mark, please explain? :)

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Ohh...just saw I hadn't answered your question! Ever so sorry!

Will elaborate in my review which will, hopefully, be up later tonight!

& :-)

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Ahh! Thank you, someone who could confirm what I was seeing! My greek is crappy compared to my Latin - which is also crappy, but better than my greek - but I stared at that screen for a while trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with it.

Now that's odd. Usually, ME *knows* when they're screwing with languages and does it for a point - either for laughs or for a plot-point. I don't think this one was laughs. . . why the hell would you write a latin phrase in greek? In bad greek, if I remember how my lamda's are shaped, too. . .

[darcydodo]

No, the Greek characters were absolutely fine. It actually looked exactly as it's shown in my post (albeit with serifed letters). Very pretty inscriptional Greek.

I figured out that it was Latin in Greek letters while the episode was still playing (go me!), and then, since we were taping it, we rewound it afterwards to check out the words we'd missed. Namely, to confirm the third word in the first line was est, and to establish that the third line read tractare.

I'm really curious now as to historical examples of Latin written in Greek. I'm sure I've come across it before, but bollocksed if I know where. Oh, and, having done a couple minutes of googling, there's a CSAD (Centre for Studies in Ancient Documents) seminar at Oxford in May on "Latin Written in Greek Script. Some Aspects of Bilingualism and Literacy in the Roman Empire." So they might have been, for example, trying to date the tablet with that.

And, just an example from http://www.pio.gov.cy/cyprus_today/jul_dec99/ancient_art_2.htm:

"To the west of "The Villa of Theseus" there is another large Roman dwelling which is also decorated with fine floor mosaics. Here the floor of one of the largest rooms is entirely dedicated to an extensive and very imposing portrayal of Orpheus, the mythical hero. In the centre of the mosaic we see Orpheus sitting on a rock and holding a lyre in his left hand and a plectron in his right hand. He is surrounded by depictions of different animals and birds that have gathered to listen to the divine music. This is a unique mosaic because it includes an inscription found right above the figure of Orpheus. The inscription reads: [TIT]OΣ (or [ΓAI]OΣ, the first three letters have not been preserved) ΠΙΝΝΙΟΣ ΡΕΣΤΙΤΟΥΤΟΣ EΠOIEI which means that someone called TIT[OS] (or GAI[OS]) PINNIOS RESTITUTOS CREATED IT. The name of the inscription is Latin written in Greek script."

So, in short, I just don't know precisely why they would've done that.... (You can always trust Joss to get Greek -- especially just the characters! -- right; IIRC his youngest brother took it for several years at school. Joss might've too, for all I know.)

Re:

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Oh, I actually am aware of Latin being written in greek before - but that's usually in heavily bilingual areas, such as the one mentioned above. There are a lot of latin inscriptions in and around Greece and it's outlying islands that use greek lettering, and it becomes more common in places like Egypt and the Anatolia region, where they learned greek before they needed to learn latin. The letter-conversion just made it easier (I can dig up my notes if you want ;) )

I'm just confused why it was used here/ Unless that was a Greek Orthodox Church, which there's no idiciation of, there's no reason it should be written greek. Although, it's prettier than latin, since it's Not English (I'm snickering here, but still). And I could recognize it as latin and even traslate it, but I could figure out why I was reading a word with an L when it so clearly had an upside down triangle. . .

I'm dumb sometimes ;)

[darcydodo]

when it so clearly had an upside down triangle. . .

*grin* It probably helped that the first line ends up looking identical, except for the sigma.

where they learned greek before they needed to learn latin.

Some pedagogist (probably Quintilian) even suggested that Roman children should learn Greek first. So that they could know Greek fluently.

So did you do some classics in college, then? :)

Unless that was a Greek Orthodox Church

Doubt it, given the way the priest was dressed. Maybe monanotlisa will shed some light on this with her promised analysis of the scene. :)

Re:

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Ooo - must friend her, I always forget.

And, heh. I double-majored in Latin and Medieval History, with a focus on European areas.

Quintilian? Hm, I didn't think he suggested that - I know dork-face, um, sorry, Cicero did. Most aristocratic Romans were taught both Latin and Greek and would often use it interchangably - Ceaser and Augustus mention this and probably others, but I have a history focus, not a literary one ;) - although I doubt they used Greek lettering unless they were actually living in more grecian areas. . .

Damn, you made me start lecturing. Bad you! ;)

[darcydodo]

I double-majored in Latin and Medieval History, with a focus on European areas.

Cool. Well, I'm not a historian by any standard, but cool anyway. Mediaeval history stuff actually is sort of interesting. ;)

dork-face, um, sorry, Cicero

*evil smirk*

It might've been Cicero. Dunno, it came up in Greek prose comp (ugh) yesterday, but that doesn't mean I was paying attention. :)

Ceaser

Caesar, Caesar, Caesar! (But I'm sure it was just a typo.) *grin*

in more grecian areas

Or on a Hellmouth, evidently. ;)